I am not an artist but... I do enjoy the site very much since joining just last night. I dislike arguing just as much as I dislike art theft. Might I suggest that you provide sketches of the artwork in question? Though I can see similiarity of the gryphon, I can tell that it isn't 100% exact, either. 

I do agree with hosting a contest, too. There are plenty of artists that would work for free just for enjoyment of it or even just for site currency in return. Since the site is still in Open Beta and you're offering "free gold coins" anyway for certain events, I don't see how it would hurt if you paid the winner of the contest(s) with gold coins.

As for tallman, "I would suggest to just ban all those jelous underage persons..." < to me that's a bit immature to say and would cause a negative view for the website and its staff because that's like saying and doing, "Oh, since you can't agree with me then I'm just going to abuse my power and ban you.." etc. There is a bit too many websites out there that are like that for my tastes. I feel like if staff cannot take the views, opinions, comments, etc (both positive and negative) of their members then they really shouldn't even bother having a website in the first place.. :c (Also, not claiming that BeastKeeper's staff is like that..)

I'm not familiar with Aywas. I joined it, but it couldn't hold my attention like Beast Keeper can. I love this site, and I would hate for it to shut down. 

I also am reading these comments and flinching horridly at the words said. However after seeing no ill intent in most of them I know most users are just concerned for the site and the owner's well being. That's fine.

Zaire - Well, thats the thing with that particular pet. If it is classed as too close, what then? If it IS posted over there, I would like a link posted publically so we can watch the judging as well. That way no-one can say "Oh yeah it passed" with no proof.

"The bird part isn't referenced. If you will move your look to the left, you will see another griffin of this type on my avatar which were created before the Aywas was launched."

The issue with this statement is that we have no proof that your avatar image was created before Aywas' launch. Therefore, using this to provide proof (with possible excemption by displaying WIP's) that the Griffin is original does not cut it. I do see that the art in the avatar matches the baby Griffin's style, so it's clear that you drew it. Just pointing out that saying "I created this before such and such." without being able to prove it, does not in fact prove it.

I, too, am satisfied with the Shutterstock and DAZ images. You're not redistributing/reproducing or selling the rights to these images. In that regard, after reading the TOS for both sites, I do believe these images are clear on copyright grounds.

It upsets me that some people have run out of patience, too. As Angel stated, she has real life, just like we all do. She is doing what she believes is right and within her means. I don't believe she's intentionally ignoring anyone or attempting to disregaurd our concerns. 

After doing my own comparison of the two images from here, and from Aywas; The feet bother me, and I'm sure many others, the most. I see absolutely no problem at all with the pose on its own. The feet being in the exact same anatomical position is where it seems the root of this issue stems from.

RedRarebit: That's why I had suggested ArtistBeware, they're a public group of artists and commissioners, one that a good deal of people trust and value the opinion of. It's not so much an angry site or one that, in my experiance, has been fair and even tempered about the things they rule and judge. 

They're very likely to give both sites a fair shake so long as everything is lain out before them. They're a good group of people and I personally trust and value their opinion. It's also a good place for artist and commissioner to go should they be wronged.

I think this has really turned from expression of valid concerns into a witchhunt. There are a lot of vocal people on tumblr who are currently fueling the fire, and people pushing it on here, too.

The best option might just be to appease the masses by either getting the griffin image judged, or just doing something like lifting a leg with the griffin or something. Sometimes, even if you're in the right, you have to bite the bullet and just do it. :( I'm afraid that all this reputation soiling is going to make Beast Keeper a graveyard, which none of us want! D:

Beastkeeper is a FANTASY site. That means everything is a human creation- not based of things found in nature. Sure the unicorn and horse are similar, and the roc is baisically a big raptor...

Angel already said they played Aywas. Our ideas of something are informed by our experiences. The image of the griff became something that they saw all the time and informed what their idea of a griffin was. It's not copied... I mean it doesn't really occur on a concious level anyway... I mean when I think of a pheonix I automatically picture rising out of the ashes... lots of people do... but there are only so many ways you can draw it....

But Dragons and Gryphons are created by people. That means that every reproduction off of the "original idea" is a reproduction. I see similarities in the aywas and BK design... however my cat makes this pose all the time, I've seen dozens of cats in this pose, and when you google it you find gryphs in this pose too. It's a common pose..

For example... google "howling wolf tattoo" They are all made by different people- BUT ALL LOOK THE SAME. Same with the idea of a rearing horse... You can copywrite a pose unless its something truly unique and unheard of o.0
 I don't think that the aywas pose is unique anyway.

>>Striking out by banning users who are simply expressing concern for the site is ridiculous. Silence the userbase? That's your idea, Tallman?

No, not the userbase. Just ridiculous time and nerve wasters like you.
I am really sorry if this sounds insulting, it wasn't intentional.
Nothing personal, but from what I see, devs are being flooded with phantom allegations and creating problem from nothing.

Following statements are not addressed to you only:
1. I don't understand what is wrong with baby griffin image. I think that if you don't like that it looks similar to something it is your own problem. Going beyond suggesting devs to fix your problem, by accusing them on theft is immature and not very smart.
2. You see copyright violation? Devs do not agree with you? Report it to legitimate owner. It is that easy.

Again, sorry if this sounds insulting, I never want to be rude, but that is what on my mind.

Just posting here to let everyone know that its at least mitnight, if not even later, where Angel lives.
So her abscence does not mean she is ignoring any of you, but that she has a life and needs to sleep like a normal humanbeing.

Tallman - I'm quite (not entirely, but quite) certain that Aywas staff have been alerted to it, and Slash classes it as 'too close to their version' or something similar. So, it has been reported, and to the best of my knowledge, Aywas classes it as art theft.

RedRarebit: How do you know of this? I'm not trying to come off as rude, but I don't see how you know? I'd like to see where this is stated because I really don't understand where this has been alerted to the staff unless I actually see it. 

Like I said I'm not trying to come off as rude but I would like to see where this claim is coming from.

As for what Prof_Jamew said, they have a point. It is midnight and Angel needs to sleep like a human being. So I do believe that we should leave the issue alone, until Angel has time to address all of our concerns.

Our final decision.

The baby griffin pose will be changed. This will be done to satisfy players, not because we changed our mind and think that it was and art theft. There are enough proofs in this thread to prove the opposite. We are concerned about the legal trolling from the competitor pet sites and we just don't have enough time to respond everyone.

We will write a mail to the author of dragon reference which we used, describing in details the areas of use of this image. If we will get his permission, the skin will stay. If we won't, we will change it. The author's reply will be published here if he agrees to publish it.

The question about using royalty-free stock photos and models is closed. We aren't going to redraw any of these images since we do not use them outside royalty-free license terms.

@tallman,

 if you are a mature person, you should know by now that calling people names is not going to solve anything, so I would refrain from posting stuff like that if you dont want to insult people and come across as rude. 

EDIT: Argh, took me too long. Sorry, this was to Entity.
Due to the response from Angel it's now, obviously, out-dated, but this is still the source I was going to use for what I'd said, just to clear up any confusion.

Taken from Angels own thread on Aywas, which can be found here:

EDIT: Holy table-breaking, batman! I'll see what I can do about that.

And there we have it! Thank you Angel for providing your imput and discussing it with your staff, I'm very happy with your response.

Thank you for alerting me to this, RedRarebit. I now see your point.