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  • Angel
  • Game Developer
  • Posts: 3,051

Posted at 2013-02-25 05:56:50 — Link

Rika, you are an artist? I will give you an example which is clear for any artist. Below are links to 2 pictures. Both are classic English horse paintings. And an overlay of them. If to judge by your criteria, one of the artists heavily referenced the image of another. Though the world community doesn't know about this for some reason and willing to pay money for both.

http://www.oilpaintingfactory.com/english/oil-painting-110934.htm
http://www.oilpaintingfactory.com/english/oil-painting-109968.htm

Overlay:

 

We changed the image of baby griffin to calm the players, it was announced in this thread along with our decisions on other disputable moments.


  • RyuArashi
  • User
  • Posts: 10

Posted at 2013-02-25 06:01:57 — Link

In the case of that example they simply had the horses stack in the same show pose. It is the typical "I'm showing off this horse" pose, and can be found redilly all over the internet. 

The case of the griffin is very different, as the anatomical similarities are too striking to ignore. There is no reference that comes as close to the pose/anatomy/characteristics as the aywas griffin.


  • tallman
  • User
  • Posts: 14

Posted at 2013-02-25 06:02:54 — Link

Rika,
You don't have to be a psychiatrist to be able identify a madman whe you see one.
You
don't have to be lawyer to be able to read the law.
You don't have to be an artist to understand that same animal drawn in same pose is not an a copy.
But you have to be a multicellular to understand that you cannot always get away with insulting and accusing people, especially "fellow artists".
Oh, and after you called yourself artist, could you please PM me link to your artwork?

Ryu,
Like a horse, griffin consists from animal parts, and those parts and there is ony one way to draw them to look right, the right way. Would you argue with that statement?


  • Rika
  • User
  • Posts: 8

Posted at 2013-02-25 06:05:38 — Link

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I'm fairly certain that both of those images were made before the advent of the internet and copyright law. Also just because other people did it and got away with it doesn't make it okay???

 

Also since the pose is extremely generic and the subject in question is not stylized at all, I would actually chalk that up to coincidence if that artist told me so.

 

You however DID have contact with the original image and copied both the pose and several parts of the stylization. I'm sorry, there's just no way I can turn the other cheek with this.

 

I understand that after all this fighting you may have ill feelings toward me, but I wish no ill will towards you! Like I said, I really like this site!! I think it's a great, unique idea and a lot of fun. I want to enjoy it, I really do!

 

Anyway, it's late and I have class tomorrow. I will again say thank you for changing the image, it was definitely the right thing to do and I commend you for it!


  • DragonSpeaker
  • User
  • Posts: 1

Posted at 2013-02-25 06:34:36 — Link

"No, it's called a slander. Researching doesn't include accusations."


You seriously need to brush up on your legal defiinitions. I was excited to play this site and willing to forgive the art discrepancies if you made good on them, but this attitude is simply disgusting. I will be taking my time and money elsewhere as a result of what I saw in this discussion.


  • tallman
  • User
  • Posts: 14

Posted at 2013-02-25 06:52:04 — Link

DragonSpeaker, why you think this attitude is disgusting? 
1. Anyone is innocent until proven guilty. If person accusses someone without providing legitimate proof, then this person is a slanderer. Would you argue with that?
2. All those accussions on same pose is ridiculous. I would not be surprised if same persons will go ahead and say that devs "stole" website, because there is similar HTML tags, CSS rules, HTTP headers or latin letters.


  • RedCape
  • User
  • Posts: 20

Posted at 2013-02-25 07:10:34 — Link

Honestly the way you're handling yourself is rather immature and I'm both shocked and a little put off by how you're allowed to speak to other users on this site Tallman. You keep complaining about how the other users here act yet you yourself have done no better. 

 

If anything is offputting about this stie aside from the scary simaliar art, it's you. You are rude, disrespectful and all around immature. I hope that you'll see that you're no better than the people you've been belittling on this site and perhaps you'll change at the very least how you speak publicly. 

 

There is no 'legitimate proof ' of anyone doing anything wrong as of yet. As you said innocent until proven guilty, all you're doing is adding to this mass of drama.


  • Entity
  • User
  • Posts: 51

Posted at 2013-02-25 07:30:06 — Link

The more we argue about this, the more the site is kept behind. Personally I'd like to see the arguing cease and desist.


  • deceit
  • User
  • Posts: 1

Posted at 2013-02-25 07:32:23 — Link

Oookay, first of all, thanks for pulling my overlay off tumblr?

I'm glad you decided to change the griffin, but not for the reason you exactly should have.
The poses were extremely similar, that for a second, when I saw that picture, I thought someone had redrawn aywas griffin as fan art, then I realized I was on a different petsite.

You will not sway me in my opinion that that image was heavily traced or referanced. I redid my overlay to show the similarities:

I will tell you exactly what I did to the griffin lineart to receive that lineup.

The head was shrunk down and rotated, the feet were made shorter, the back wing was tilted and the back lines were tilted.

Yes, there are differences, no doubt about that. But the similarities with this outweight the differences.

The new pose of the griffin also looks like the original pose was just slid around and the legs redrawn.

In the end, this has just left a foul taste in my mouth and I definitely don't think I'll be sticking with this site. The attitudes of the artist/admin in dealing with this issue was highly unprofessional and wanting to press slander against people for pointing out clear similarities, which are true, is ever worse.

Libel, cited from wikipedia.com, on the article of defamation, otherwise known as slander.

"There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, first, the person must prove that the statement was false."

Libel is the written form of slander. Slander is not applicable here, because there are similarities and that is the truth.

Any negative statements said about this site off site or on were warnings, not 'hey stay away forever because of art theft'. People wanted their friends/people around them to know about the ongoings on this website.


  • Mori
  • User
  • Posts: 1

Posted at 2013-02-25 08:21:13 — Link

I have to agree with those who are saying this is handled unprofessionally. I really love the mechanics and ideas of this site, but I've had more then my share of this kind of behavior, and I don't believe the game is worth it. So I'll leave, and should people ask, I will tell them my feelings about this place, but I want nothing more to do with it.


  • Meesh
  • User
  • Posts: 103

Posted at 2013-02-25 08:40:09 — Link

Bluh, okay, having read through all 8 pages, might I throw in my two cents?

 

Regardless of if the art is stolen or not, can we all take a moment to quickly calm ourselves down? Tensions are rising a bit high, I can understand this, but the issue of this thread is to resolve an art issue, not to be throwing accusations and getting mad at one another. I know I don't have much of a right to say this, but before posting in this thread again, just take a moment to reread it and ask yourself "Is this really going to help contribute to solving the art issue? Is it even relevant?"

I know tensions are high, and a lot of people are stressed, let's just try to handle this as mature and calmly as possible, alright? After all, we all want the same thing, and that's to keep this site running as smoothly as possible, yes?

 

Sorry for that, it wasn't directed at anyone in specific, just everyone. Since I'd like to keep out of this conversation for fear of offending everyone, I'm going to absond now. Hope y'all get this figured out <3

Flying is just throwing yourself at the ground and missing


  • Prof_Jamew
  • User
  • Posts: 8

Posted at 2013-02-25 08:42:27 — Link

Springdragon and all who offered to use user-created images: let's talk frankly, it's only a trust issue. We can't trust an artist who tried to turn people away from our project because of one single image which is very doubtful.

Sorry, but.... Did I read that correctly, angel? Are you seriously accusing every helping hand that has ben raised in here of blackmailing beastkeeper?
You are hitting the wrong dog, dear.

Also, it would be nice if you kept an eye on people who misbehave like a certain person running around here insulting people like its ok.

Sorry to see this site die because the admin is too proud. I gave you all the chances I could give.


Goodbye!

 


  • Springdragon
  • User
  • Posts: 10

Posted at 2013-02-25 09:12:28 — Link

Oh dear. It appears this hasn't been resolved after all. Very well.

Thank you for reminding me to update the tumblr posts. I will do that shortly. 

First, I am not personally offering my services in redoing the art. I am busy with my own project and I don't have time to take on upaid work. I think it needs to be done, and I have provided you with a low-cost method to do it, which is your userbase. 

Second, slander/libel must be false statements*. The entire content of my post is true. I included words like "guess" "think" and "assume", clearly stating that it was my own deduction based on the observations that I presented, and that I did not yet have factual proof. 

I also never warned people away from your site. Instead, I encouraged them to send you a strongly worded email, so that you would know that this is something your userbase cares about. I'm not the only one who noticed. If it's only one or two people who say something, you will assume that  nobody noticed while wondering why your site isn't thriving. You won't know the problem unless many people say something.

 I like your game and I made that post because I want it to continue running. I could have quietly boycotted. 

I would like to continue playing because I like your game, but if you're so upset that you'd rather I left, that's fine. I will quit of my own volition. Just send me an email or a message on site, so you don't have to look like a bully in front of your customers.

* Unless it concerns a person's finances, mental health, or sexual activity. True statements about those three things are still considered libel/slander, if you want to be technical. However, that's not relevant to this situation. 

dAllFAllWeasylllTumblr

  • seph
  • User
  • Posts: 223

Posted at 2013-02-25 12:17:44 — Link

*lays the popcorn down*

Okay seriuosly guis watching this withhunt was fun while it lasted but now? Really what do you (in terms of both sides) think you will actually accomplish by this?

 

The artists: GREAT work you guys! No seriuosly you came in in the hundreds, spammed the admins till your concerns were addressed, continuing spreading ill words of the site and the artist around the internet, while not even waiting for any human beeing to be able to respond. And then you go ahead offer up your 'services' and think that you will be taken with open arms?

Now that the gryff cub was changed you aren't even stopping with your witchhunt and at this point it becomes really ridicoulus.

On one side you want the artist to say sorry to you? If she needs to say sorry than it's in privacy to the aywas artist and not to you nitpickers who aren't saying sorry either or taking your blogs of. Talk about courtesy here. You want to be threaten respectful so you should also take a step to that direction.

Angel: Okay I can see where you're from and at this point noone really cares anymore if you referenced it, copied it or whatever. You maybe can't change the opinions on those haters for whatever reason, so please just post whatever steps you left, post on this other artboard to get an opinion of them and say sorry that you can see how the pose is close looking to eachother and be DONE with it.

No really I mean it, those guys did everything in their power to make you look what they descibed as an unmature, stubborn person who steals and is in the wrong. The damage for your side is already there no matter what the truth is, so at least try to save your dignity in a way by doing what you said you would do anyway.

The rest: Okay really the fire is getting hot in here and while I'm not for banning the noisy people, I'm totally in favour of closing this damn topic which only from this point onward will only bring hurt feelings on all sides and distress. Really if people want to continue their ridicoulus little witchhunt they can do that. By pm or on their blogs, but personally I don't want to read any of this shit anymore on this not even 5 days old site, I began to find enyojable, which is already on the verge of getting 'effectively killed' (as the artist faction described it in their blog).

 

So yeah shame on all sides and on me for only ranting here, because I'm kinda getting sick over hearing the smae stuff over and over again for the last 8 pages.

Really I'm soooo glad I'm no artist and seriuosly after what I saw here I never want to be one. This mafia structure should read back these pages and really think if they want to be pictured at this snappy little withhunter group, who only comes to new sites in search of pride and wealth and apparetnly only to take the place appart by looking all over the web in search for pictures. That wouldn't have come to my mind when joining a brand new site but whatever, to me it looks like you only came here with maliciuos intents from the start and you reiterating the 'we mean no harm' chant isn't really making things look any better on your end.

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  • SpaceShipRat
  • User
  • Posts: 135

Posted at 2013-02-25 12:36:30 — Link

This is ridicolous. All other matters have been resolved, and the griffin art is being/ has been redone, so WHY are people still going on about this? This thread should be locked.



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