Boards < Bugs & Suggestions < Suggestions < Premium concerns and suggestions

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  • Angel
  • Game Developer
  • Posts: 3,051

Posted at 2013-03-20 05:36:52 — Link

That said, I kind of wish you were this responsive to non-premium suggestions. You seem to rarely reply to any of those, even if they're really good ideas.

In average, I have one day per week when there's some spare time to check suggestions. Usually I reply to those which have the most player attention, weren't offered before and aren't planned already for the future game development. We have a to-do list for the next 5-6 months, and there are only 3 premium features, 2 of them are offered by community. We already moved the priorities in our to-do list several times, but we can't realize all of of your suggestions so fast. Please remember that there are a lot of new features to be coded, not only the tweaks offered by the community.

Your goal as a site owner should be to make us, as players, spend as much time as possible on this website doing /something/.

It's not our purpose. It's good if a player wants to stay in game for a long time, but in any case we shouldn't force him to do this. The more the game forces a player to stay, the faster the player will become bored. Our personal experience says that players stay for years in games which allow them to play about half an hour a day and not to be at the end of rankings at the same time.

We're still working on the idea of rebalancing the Explore feature. Probably the best variant will be the one which was offered as a modification of our first suggestion by Ankokou here (the one with 5 energy, we're going to add some additional tweaks too to make it balanced both for new players and those who have a lot of pets).


  • Swiftla
  • User
  • Posts: 111

Posted at 2013-03-20 05:40:24 — Link

I don't really support the being able to see 3 generations back for free users. I mean, is there much point in being able to see the whole thing if the only real concern is inbreeding? If you click on parent's parent's of a beast profile, you will be able to see if you will be inbreeding. Just because it doesn't display nicely doesn't mean you won't be able to tell if you are inbreeding :)

I support the full or limited autobattle. It does sound like it would greatly benefit premiums, but I as well would spend limited time on or eventually quit if I didn't have it. With the time I have to play, I would only be able to explore with a few creatures per day and would probably be discouraged for the vast amount of time to level just one pet to fifty.

Another premium idea could have been to restrict which buildings you could construct, unless you buy a gold coin "Building Permit" (or just totally restrict). I mean, for example the Inn, Sanctuary and higher level stables could be restricted to premium only, as they are not required for enjoyable gameplay, just bonuses (leave those who have already constructed as a beta player bonus)?


  • Sen
  • User
  • Posts: 35

Posted at 2013-03-20 05:56:05 — Link

@ Angel

I didn't mean to make us, I meant to make us want to. Your product should be enjoyable enough that we want to spend time here/become invested. And right now, you can spend a half hour on the game and still be pretty decently off. You can also spend several hours on it and be pretty well off. Or you can buy the perks from the premium shop (when it becomes available) and be pretty well off. 


  • TarotWeird
  • User
  • Posts: 20

Posted at 2013-03-20 06:10:31 — Link

Agree with Sen on this. The premium package, at least the way I see it, should be the time-saver and headache-saver of the game, not the playability. Especially when you have more than 25 pets, autobattle saves you a lot of time and energy. The game becomes unplayable without it later, especially when you are trying to level pets up to a high level to create things. The "cheats" would make for fantastic premium items because they save you time rather than give you something completely new. Taming takes three days but a cheat would get it done faster, therefore let you use that pet sooner. Considering how long the game can take, the premium, I feel, would be best if used as a means of saving time.


  • Shadow
  • User
  • Posts: 169

Posted at 2013-03-20 06:28:47 — Link

I support making autobattle an option for all users, and auto explore a premium only function.

 

I personally cannot afford premium.  But what I can offer the site is my time, my art/writing/etc if need be, and I can offer advertisement, getting potential premium buyers to the site.

 

But honestly, if I have to spend too much time on this site, I'll leave. I've got to do things like find a job, go to college, etc. I don't have time to spend a few hours exploring with every single pet while using manual battles...

Hello there! My name is Shadow, and I specialize in the collecting and breeding of gryphons. If you'd like to breed with one of my males, or purchase any of my non-gryphons, just shoot me a message!


  • irrimn
  • User
  • Posts: 240

Posted at 2013-03-20 07:51:34 — Link

First off, just wanted to say that I'm glad a good number of people have come together on this post and started to discuss the topic of premium and for Angel to come and spend time talking to us about it. I know as a game dev you also have an entire life you have to live with work and family and all other responsibilities in life so any time you can spend on the site coding or talking to the community is time donated to us to make it a better game. Right now you aren't making any money off this site because you don't want to sell an incomplete product (because we're in beta so you don't want to take our money and give us things that may change in price, function, or be removed all together even later).

So, kudos to you for being so awesome!

Anyways, so my 2 cents on the subject: Premium needs to be something that all players will want to have for convenience not for necessity. So far you've definately stuck to the mantra of keeping this game balance for both playing and non-paying players. All items are obtainable without paying and that speaks leagues about the game. I do feel like there are small things that could be added to premium to make it a better package and have been giving this a lot of thought.

So my ideas:

Crafting queue - what the crafting queue will allow you to do is to set an item to be crafted with a pet that doesn't have enough energy. Say for example, I just explored one of my pets that I need to craft something, so they have 0 energy. But I really want to craft some item as soon as the pet has enough energy. So, crafting queue lets you start the crafting without the pet having enough energy. So, obviously a pet needs 10 energy to start crafting, so that's 10 hours, and crafting takes 4 hours. So it would pet the pet up as "waiting to craft" or something, and then automatically as soon as 10 hours is up, it will take the items out of your inventory and start crafting the queued item without any further player interaction. This will mostly be useful because you can start stuff crafting before you go to bed or work or whatever and it will get done while you are away from the game.

Capture Wild Pet Queue - This one will be a little bit more of a complex feature. What this will allow you to do is send out exploration parties weeks in advance (maybe say, up to 4 weeks ahead of time?). This will be along the lines of the same benefit of the crafting queue because, say for example you really want to catch reptiles -- well, you know that all pets must pass through the watering spots or the fields... so you can schedule for parties to go out each week to the same spots. Again, mostly useful when you're away from the game.

Auto-auto-battle/breed - Essentially this is just an extension of the battling system and the breeding system. You put a pet up for auto-auto-battle or auto-breed, both actions which require energy. As we know, when the pets energy hits 0 it is taken down from the battle/breed list. This feature would automatically put them back up when they gained energy.

Those are all the new ideas I've come up with so far. They're all kinda along the same line of being able to have the game do things while you're away/not actively playing. I don't really think they'd be unbalanced because they don't do anything that someone playing the game can't do for themselves anyways. It would make it (very slightly) easier to keep a pet up on the high scores board but not really any easier than someone else that logs onto the game twice a day could accomplish (since it takes 10 hours for energy to hit maximum).

Furthermore, I think it'd be nice if the energy cost of exploring is raised to 5 energy per explore that the energy cap would be raised to accomodate people that only want to log on once a day. So I'd recommend 24 (so that someone could literally be on once every 24 hours and still not fall behind). Although, this has nothing to do with premium or not, it is relevant to some of the discussion going on, so.


  • RedRarebit
  • User
  • Posts: 188

Posted at 2013-03-20 16:57:45 — Link

I didn't mean to make us, I meant to make us want to. Your product should be enjoyable enough that we want to spend time here/become invested.

- Sen


I'm in total agreement of this point. I'm gonna add my own list of ideas for premium VS basic along with reasons here as well, if we're all doing it.
Bear in mind this is just MY idea of what would be ideal, and others opinions probably vary. But I've been going through the suggestion boards and trying to match up what people want what with what I imagine counts as a 'perk'.

Also yes this is going to be in those brilliant bullet points. They make everything clearer and I'm not sorry to anyone who thinks I'm over using it. This also covers things not discussed in this thread. I tried to come up with some that were 'interface based' as well as game based, though I personally feel just giving interface-based perks isn't worth premium. Some things are also already going to happen, I just put them in to make the list complete.

For Everyone/Basic Users

  • Ability to see three generations back. 
    Its often been said, to the best of my memory, that the focus isn't on catching and releasing pets to get the perfect one, but rather on breeding. Offering the minimum of being able to see three generations back just seems like common sense, and is a good incentive to check up on this sort of thing.
  • Autobattle on Explore.
    The battle system as it is seems tedious to most users, or indecipherable to others. I personally don't mind the battle system as it is, but there are many times when I don't want to bother with the hassle of clicking through an entire battle. 
  • Limited (3?) auto-releases a day.
    For those that do enjoy catching and taming pets. The ability to make the choice about whether to commit to training and taming a pet. You can only reject a limited number of pets a day, to try and cut down on re-rolling.
  • Re-roll 1 quest a day.
    Sometimes there is just no way you're able to complete any of the quests. The ability to gamble one and try for a reroll seems like a sensible compromise. The resulting quest would be in the same price band (so, you couldn't reroll a bronze quest and get a gold) but hopefully more suited to you.
  • Ability to add folders to our inbox.
    It helps keeps things organised and tidy. Simple.
  • Can only search pets being traded.
    I think this one is perfectly fair. 

Premium Perks

  • Access to full pedigree.
    That way premium users are paying for the ability to make more in-depth breeding lines, more complicated genetic decisions, and all in one easy click instead of having to follow things back.
  • An inbreeding warning notification/pop-up.
    Again, to assist with the more in-depth breeding records and awareness of whats going on with their family lines.
  • Auto-Explore.
    Costing 5 energy per trip, taking an hour(?) to complete. From what I understand, basically this, which has been agreed on.
  • Focused Auto-Explore
    Leading on from the above perk, the ability to put focus on the trip. Pets could be told to 'harvest/hunt' to gather food, or 'mine' to gather non-edible resources/silver, or 'train' to only battle monsters. The yield that they bring back would be higher then if sent on a non-focussed trip, but at the loss of all other kinds of loot.
  • 5(?) auto-releases a day
    For those that do enjoy catching and taming pets. The ability to make the choice about whether to commit to training and taming a pet. You can only reject a limited number of pets a day, to try and cut down on re-rolling. Still limited, but more then non-premium users.
  • Ability to reroll 3 quests a day.
    Sometimes there is just no way you're able to complete any of the quests. The ability to gamble one and try for a reroll seems like a sensible compromise. The resulting quest would be in the same price band (so, you couldn't reroll a bronze quest and get a gold) but hopefully more suited to you. Same as the basic user, but with a couple more added - I think 3 is a reasonable number.
  • Ability to see pet-stats before taming.
    I admit, this is one I'm grouchy over. But if its a premium only perk, then it seems fair to me. In-Game, you could simply say that being a premium user gives you a magic ring that lets you read the pets mind or something.
  • Custom Forum Titles
    Its just a nice little perk, one that doesn't do anything, but is nice to have and makes users feel special.
  • Can search all pets, not just ones being traded.
    Again, this is a good example of a balanced perk.
  • Random speed-ups.
    Quite rare, but - when building something, you may get a notification like "<pet> has worked really hard and the building might be done faster then expected!", which speeds up the building time by anywhere from 5 minutes to 15 minutes.
  • Crafting queue - irrimn
    The ability to sceduale crafting to occur when a certain pet has enough energy. Maybe only able to do this to one pet/project per day?
    [reworded for simplicity and length]
  • Capture Wild Pet Queue - irrimn
    The ability to sceduale expeditions in advance - as soon as one week is over, automatically send the catchers out again. Maybe the ability to only plan out the next trip?
    [reworded for simplicity and length]

As you can see - this way, Premium users get something for their RL money, while basic users are still able to enjoy and play the game.

There are other aspects of the game that need to be tweaked here and there, because some aspects are undesirable or more hardwork then is actually fun (and not just 'challenging' but plain old not fun) but as far as perks/non-perks go, this is what I can think of, and what I can gather is wanted from various other threads. 

* Will probably pop back in 10 minutes or so to update this with the inevitable idea thats waiting for me to hit post before making itself known.

* Winter is coming *


  • Angel
  • Game Developer
  • Posts: 3,051

Posted at 2013-03-20 21:48:36 — Link

I didn't mean to make us, I meant to make us want to. Your product should be enjoyable enough that we want to spend time here/become invested.

Usually this is realized by adding various game content - and this is what we would like to work on and where we want to put all our efforts! Monotonous grinding won't cause any interest and desire to stay.

Shadow, we're going to reduce the amount of explore time by increasing the energy required for explore and the amount of resources found on the island. This way basic users won't have to spend more time on explore than everybody spend now. For premiums, it will be even quicker because of the autobattle.

irrimn, the action queues is a great idea. Though it will take some time to code and I can't promise that it will be introduced soon, but it will take the place in our to-do :)


  • irrimn
  • User
  • Posts: 240

Posted at 2013-03-20 22:45:31 — Link

irrimn, the action queues is a great idea. Though it will take some time to code and I can't promise that it will be introduced soon, but it will take the place in our to-do :)

 

I know you guys got a ton of stuff to do and code, all the while trying to balance the game out. I'm not expecting any of these things to be added over night. I've coded (and am still in the midst) of coding a site like this so I know how much time it takes to add new features. You guys have done an excellent job so far; especially with validating (never trust the user!). I've actually been testing various things here and there and I have to say that your coding has been very secure so I know that it takes a lot of time to code new things but then when new features are added that they'll be good code and in line with the ideal future of the site.


  • Sen
  • User
  • Posts: 35

Posted at 2013-03-21 01:02:22 — Link

I guess this is partly in response to your policy on interface changes for premium rather than any real advantages given to people who will pay. I don't think this is a good policy for anything that wants to make a profit. For a slightly sloppy metaphor - 

Imagine you're living in an average cost apartment with average apartment type things. Suddenly, you have really noisy neighbors that are an annoyance and bother you, but don't hinder your actual day to day life. But they bug you becaues they're always really loud, they occasionally blast music at strange hours. You don't like it. So you talk to your landlord/apartment building owner and they say: For this fee, we'll make them be quiet, but otherwise, you have to deal with this part of living here. Repeat this for things like having hot water immediately vs. waiting for fifteen minutes for it to heat up. Annoyances that you can get by with, but that are inconvenient. I'm not going to pay the owner to take away these annoyances, I'm going to move to another apartment where these things are pretty standard. I leave and find something better.

Now take the same situation and the owner says, "All right, for a small fee, we're going to make your entire room sound proof so you don't have to deal with any of the noise. We're also going to make sure you have extra hot water, extra space, and you're not going to have to deal with all these petty annoyances". That will make me consider paying the extra fee. Things that are worth my money, things that make me special rather than convenienced with the game.


  • RedRarebit
  • User
  • Posts: 188

Posted at 2013-03-21 01:10:51 — Link

That lil update is worded a bit vague (for me, anyway) there - Angel, do you mean that basic users still wont be getting Autobattle?

* Winter is coming *


  • DragonSage
  • User
  • Posts: 78

Posted at 2013-03-21 01:32:03 — Link

That's the impression I got Rarebit.

If premiums get autobattle and basics get manual, I don't think an auto-explore should be implamented for the premiums.


  • Ankokou
  • User
  • Posts: 267

Posted at 2013-03-21 02:57:10 — Link

If premiums get autobattle and basics get manual, I don't think an auto-explore should be implamented for the premiums.

 



Agreed. I would still like to see it, maybe as a structure we can build to enable it, but premium doesn't need both features.

I do, however, really like the sound of some of the other changes and proposals.


  • Angel
  • Game Developer
  • Posts: 3,051

Posted at 2013-03-21 03:29:45 — Link

Sen, if you like parallels, I'll give you another one which is closer to our situation. Imagine a professional sports competiton. You are paying a fee to participate in this competiton, but you can't pay for the first place. It depends only on your own talents if you will win the Grand Prix or not.

RedRarebit, yes, we're not going to implement Autoexplore because it's against the game concept, and we're not going to change the policy on Autobattle. There was a real problem with too much grind which players have pointed to us, and we're very grateful for this because we had a possibility to solve this problem before it actually popped out for the basic players. Reducing the amount of grind in several times makes autobattle just another convenient but not crucial feature like pedigree. 


  • RedRarebit
  • User
  • Posts: 188

Posted at 2013-03-21 03:40:34 — Link

So, from what I can gather, it's a big "Thanks for pointing things out, we hear you - and we're still going to do things the way you've said you wont enjoy."

Clearly, if I'm wrong, thats great, but to me it does seem like we've just been shouting to the wind, so to speak.

* Winter is coming *



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