Since the new site, BeastEon, is only going to be a dating sim for creatures, I would like to suggest actually paying attention to this site again. BeastKeeper may be frustratingly limited due to the energy system, but it is at the very least a game that can be played.

The battle system at this moment is a game of rock-paper-scissors. A level 1 pet can win against a level 15 if the right move is chosen each turn. This is not a proper battle system, so a revamp that doesn't automatically negate moves just because the opponent or yourself chose the "right" move would be nice.

Tactics for the Battlefield could use a revamp as well. Right now, nothing other than the genes and genetic power of the pets matters. At all. Level 1 pets that just barely became adults are capable of more than pets that have been trained up to level 50. I would suggest having tactic slots unlocked based on reaching certain requirements. Battle tactics, for instance, could be unlocked by battling and winning in the arena a certain number of times. Movement tactics could be unlocked by exploring a certain number of islands, or defeating a certain number of monsters on the islands.

Both normal battle and the Battlefield could be improved by having the level and stats of the pets matter. Remove the Rock-Paper-Scissors system both of these follow and instead use the system that every other game uses: attacks do damage. Squads would be a four-on-four match with the tactics being special moves available for use each turn. Four is a strange number for battling, so perhaps lower the squad to having three pets each. 3v3 is a normal system for most games, after all.

Level 1 pets can only fight up to level 5 pets - there's a cap on how many levels above or below a pet can fight.

You're also forgetting about the "overcame your opponent's move" part of the battling - and the base stats also play an important part of battling. There's also the critical chance, the dodge chance, and so on. 

There are certain restrictions put on pets with tactics, for example a level 1 pet may only be able to have 1 Counterstrike but a level 30 may have 2 Counterstrikes. There are also the maneuvers, which require wins on the battlefield and GP to unlock. 

I think what you're listing out (explore islands, etc) kind of match pheromones, which are required to produce morphs of throdoma, which have advantages in both Battlefield and Arena (and other parts of the game.)

I have no thoughts on the 4v4. 

There may be a five-level cap on how high a level your pet can fight, but the fact that rock always beats scissors still stands. If there were no cap, a level one could fight a level fifteen and win. That is my point.

Yes, there is a chance for dodging and critical strikes. However, those only apply if your move gets through. Again, rock will always beat scissors, so if you chose scissors and the enemy chooses rock, oops, your crit chance does not matter. The stats only come into play if you choose the "right" move. This should never be the case in a game with battling. Feel free to take a look at any RPG that has ever been released by a game company.

That is about as small a restriction as it gets. A level 1 pet still has the variety of tactics that a level 50 has. And, on top of that, the tactics ignore stats entirely, outside of needing 100 to be available. The stats of the pets do not do anything for the tactics. At all. A pet with 300 points in a stat will be exactly the same as a pet with 100 in the same stat.

Sunset (#1897) wrote:

Since the new site, BeastEon, is only going to be a dating sim for creatures, I would like to suggest actually paying attention to this site again. BeastKeeper may be frustratingly limited due to the energy system, but it is at the very least a game that can be played.

BeastEon isn't a dating sim :) It has a layer for social interactions, and reaching a high relationship level between two Beasts is mandatory if you want them to have a baby, but this is not the only game mechanic. 

It's true that BeastKeeper is outdated and needs redesigning of pretty much everything, not only the battle system. We do understand how it looks and feels in 2020. But this means creating a new game from scratch, including dropping the current database if to code it on the top of BK. We'd like to keep BK alive as long as possible instead of wiping it. 

Yes, there is a chance for dodging and critical strikes. However, those only apply if your move gets through.

Dodge and anticrit works for countermoves as well.  

Tactics for the Battlefield could use a revamp as well. Right now, nothing other than the genes and genetic power of the pets matters. At all. Level 1 pets that just barely became adults are capable of more than pets that have been trained up to level 50.

Yes, breeding proper pets is more important than training. BK was designed as a breeding game, so this is the main focus. The biggest part of the solo training goes to the ancestors of squad pets and not to these pets themselves. Though it's not enough and you still need to train even properly bred squad pets, just the different way than when you do that for solo fights, explore and breeding.

Tactics are not available without training. There's only one very basic tactic provided without training, the Compensation. All other need to be unlocked. Also, unlocking the full set of maneuvers and upgrading maneuvers requires some solo training. A squad of level ones is competitive only against other starter squads, and in case of specific builds - against other specific builds.

Angel (#3) wrote:

BeastEon isn't a dating sim :) It has a layer for social interactions, and reaching a high relationship level between two Beasts is mandatory if you want them to have a baby, but this is not the only game mechanic.

If your focus is still on breeding, then yes, it is in fact a dating sim. You've already stated that battles wont be a thing, which means it will have even less "game" than BK has. Not only is that sad for a game, but also means that the new site is, again, just a fancy dating sim.

It's true that BeastKeeper is outdated and needs redesigning of pretty much everything, not only the battle system. We do understand how it looks and feels in 2020. But this means creating a new game from scratch, including dropping the current database if to code it on the top of BK. We'd like to keep BK alive as long as possible instead of wiping it.

It would not take starting from scratch. I'm far from being a genius with coding, but even I know that a few tweaks would go a long way. Take the Pokemon games, for example. The first of the games were incredibly simple. The new games still use the base of the first games while adding improvements. The same can be done here, if you actually want to try to make the game good.

Yes, breeding proper pets is more important than training. BK was designed as a breeding game, so this is the main focus. The biggest part of the solo training goes to the ancestors of squad pets and not to these pets themselves. Though it's not enough and you still need to train even properly bred squad pets, just the different way than when you do that for solo fights, explore and breeding.

Tactics are not available without training. There's only one very basic tactic provided without training, the Compensation. All other need to be unlocked. Also, unlocking the full set of maneuvers and upgrading maneuvers requires some solo training. A squad of level ones is competitive only against other starter squads, and in case of specific builds - against other specific builds.

On second look at the FAQ page, I've been calling the maneuvers tactics. The tab you select things for is called Tactics, so it's understandble that I, and possibly many other people, have been calling all of the Battlefield moves tactics.

Tactics may need a few battle wins, but maneuvers, the things I had been talking about with the wrong term due to the tab being poorly named, are available to all level 1 pets with no training whatsoever.

Sunset (#1897) wrote:

If your focus is still on breeding, then yes, it is in fact a dating sim.

On the contrary, the focus is not on breeding. BeastEon is neither a breeding sim nor a dating sim. 

You've already stated that battles wont be a thing, which means it will have even less "game" than BK has. 

We stated that PvP is not a thing. Battles are a thing. At this moment we have a gameplay concept for battles, a tech demo, and about 50 different monsters designed, most with lore and battle mechanics already.

It would not take starting from scratch. I'm far from being a genius with coding, but even I know that a few tweaks would go a long way. Take the Pokemon games, for example. The first of the games were incredibly simple. The new games still use the base of the first games while adding improvements. The same can be done here, if you actually want to try to make the game good.

We don't have Nintendo behind us to repeat the story of the Pokémon series :)

Making both battle systems great essentially means two things:

1) Developing a new original gameplay design for battles. This task is far from trivial and can't be estimated at all. We're against copying existing mechanics from other games as-is. It may take a month or two, or it may take years like it happened with BeastEon (and we're still not completely satisfied with it because it's far from flexible). 

2) Rewriting the whole game engine from scratch to implement the results of the first phase. There are no easy and quick ways to add or tweak anything with the current code base and technology stack. The apparel update required two months of work for two persons, and it's mostly cosmetic and not involving any of the existing game layers. Two battle systems are far more complex than that.

Angel (#3) wrote:

We don't have Nintendo behind us to repeat the story of the Pokémon series :)

Since when did an example of a game reusing its core mean needing to have a company backing you? This is an excuse, not a reason.

The core of BK is breeding, as you've made abundantly clear. The core wouldn't need to be touched, at all, to make improvements to any of the other features.

Angel (#3) wrote:

On the contrary, the focus is not on breeding. BeastEon is neither a breeding sim nor a dating sim.

We stated that PvP is not a thing. Battles are a thing. At this moment we have a gameplay concept for battles, a tech demo, and about 50 different monsters designed, most with lore and battle mechanics already.

Considering I questioned if the new site would be more than just a fancy dating sim in the thread for that site and got no answer, I am hesitant to believe you. From everything I've seen thus far about the new site, its focus is relationships. When a game is focused on relationships, it is called a dating sim.

Having monsters does not automatically make a game fun to play. This site is proof of that. If the energy system from here is still used on the new site, battling and exploring will be just as limited as it is here. Not to mention I recall you stating somewhere that battles on there will be just like the Battlefield is on this site. Which means that the "battle" system there is complete garbage. Sorry to say, but that's the truth of the Battlefield from an actual gamers perspective. It's just a casino slots game with a competitive twist to it, with no actual strategy. Catching wild pets has more strategy than the Battlefield.

Limited ability to play with a focus on relationships means... A dating sim with a side of some battling. At least here, you breed in order to get better genes, which in turn makes battling easier. Even with the core of the game being breeding, battling and exploring is... somewhat... encouraged. Somewhat being the key word simply for the sake that both are discouraged by the energy system.

Making both battle systems great essentially means two things:

1) Developing a new original gameplay design for battles. This task is far from trivial and can't be estimated at all. We're against copying existing mechanics from other games as-is. It may take a month or two, or it may take years like it happened with BeastEon (and we're still not completely satisfied with it because it's far from flexible). 

2) Rewriting the whole game engine from scratch to implement the results of the first phase. There are no easy and quick ways to add or tweak anything with the current code base and technology stack. The apparel update required two months of work for two persons, and it's mostly cosmetic and not involving any of the existing game layers. Two battle systems are far more complex than that.

I did not say that the battle systems should be great- though that would be a fantastic thing- I said that it could be made good. Good is acceptable and possibly fun or interesting. Great is fun and addicting. There is a difference between the two.

The system doesn't need to be remade. Just take out the childish rock-paper-scissors mechanic and allow the damage to do what damage does. As far as I know, every single last game in existence that has fighting does just that, so it shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.

Rewritting the Battlefield system, on the other hand, you would be correct. It would take a massive effort to make that mess good, let alone great.

Another thing that could be improved is the timer system. Right now, the timer is very much not working how it should. Pets should be gaining a point of energy every hour, yet that's not how it works. Instead, they gain one point of energy anywhere from hour and one minute to an hour and a half. The same goes for pets being born. The pets can be stuck with the done giving birth status for up to half an hour with no pet actually being born.

Edit: Just read through the "Challenge mechanics and UI" thread for BeastEon, and I've gotta say... Please put more attention into this site. A board game dating sim is not an interesting game, at all, for people looking to play actual games. It's great that you want to be creative, but creativity will only get you so far. Success is based on what people will enjoy playing, not on how creative a game is. Dating sims already have a low player base in compare to other genres, but a dating sim for beasts.... Well, it's good for roleplaying, but not for playing. As a gamer, I can already see just how few players will actually enjoy your new project. And as a roleplayer, I can say that people wont stay too long for roleplaying because the personalities for the beasts will be created by the game and they wont be able to create their own personalities for their beasts.

You seem determined to avoid making a game and instead making a dating sim board game for roleplaying. This site is infinitely better than your new project, judging on what I've seen and read about the new site. And that's saying something, since this game needs so much work to actually become a success.

Since when did an example of a game reusing its core mean needing to have a company backing you? This is an excuse, not a reason.

A company backing you is needed to have a big dedicated team working on these "little" tweaks as their day job. Such tweaks require a few orders of magnitude greater time and resources than two indie devs affected by war, economic crisis and health issues will ever have. You're basically asking us to perform on par with Nintendo which is one of the greatest and largest gaming companies in the history of video games. Isn't that a bit too much? :)

The core of BK is breeding, as you've made abundantly clear. The core wouldn't need to be touched, at all, to make improvements to any of the other features.

It's not the core of the coding base. It's the core of the game feel. Coding a slightly adjusted implementation of the Punnett square doesn't require a lot of code. However, the things coming after that require that. Most of the times the breeding would be for battle-related genes, for a battle that has to be remade from scratch. Reworking the battles (which is a tremendous task itself) means reworking the genetics as well, along with the characteristics affected by the genetics.

Considering I questioned if the new site would be more than just a fancy dating sim in the thread for that site and got no answer, I am hesitant to believe you.

Sorry, I'm not sure that I'm following you here. I'm the only person who can speak for BeastEon in English. There's no one else who you can believe about planned features.

From everything I've seen thus far about the new site, its focus is relationships. When a game is focused on relationships, it is called a dating sim.

Its focus is on personality. Relationships are one of the main aspects that create a personality. Having caring parents or being neglected, having a friend to tell you did wrong or right, hearing an exciting story about traveling or seeing your acquaintance returning from a trip with a serious injury, being (un)inspired by someone or becoming an isnpiration for others yourself are just a few examples of the major data input that defines us as unique entities. It's true that it is hard to develop a system taking into account all these interactions, especially when we're talking about relationships with entities that may disappear at any moment because it's an online game. But we're still aiming for this. I'm not sure how this system is related to dating sims which are basically visual novellas with multiple-choice dialogues and romantic storyline. We don't plan to introduce this type of gameplay and never mentioned that we were aiming for something similar in terms of ether gameplay mechanics or game feel. Please rely only on our Tumblr and this forum as a news source. There's no one else who can have information about BeastEon, and we don't post our updates anywhere else.

Having monsters does not automatically make a game fun to play.

I didn't say this to tell that it's fun. It's a proof that BeastEon has battles.

Not to mention I recall you stating somewhere that battles on there will be just like the Battlefield is on this site.

It's an evolution of the same idea. There's a party of 1-5 Beasts with a leader, and a tactic-based mechanic built upon abilities instead of numbers. A draft concept was described here. It has somewhat changed since then, but the main idea is still the same. We're trying to avoid the grinding battles as much as we can. This mechanics may be reworked into something else or not, but the battles will be puzzled-based and requiring a player to uncover the potential of Beasts through decision making. 

Somewhat being the key word simply for the sake that both are discouraged by the energy system.

Yes, we're against grinding and elapsed time being more important than game skill and planning.

The system doesn't need to be remade. Just take out the childish rock-paper-scissors mechanic and allow the damage to do what damage does.

Rock-paper-scissors mechanic is the core here. The biggest part of solo battle strategies is built upon using certain moves and countering them. It's not possible just to take it out without placing something instead, which itself would mean rewriting and rebalancing the whole genetics. So this does mean it needs to be remade.

As far as I know, every single last game in existence that has fighting does just that, so it shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.

I have to write this once more: we're against repeating the things that "every single last game in existence does". There's no reason to copy something already existing, especially in that many games.

Another thing that could be improved is the timer system. Right now, the timer is very much not working how it should. Pets should be gaining a point of energy every hour, yet that's not how it works. Instead, they gain one point of energy anywhere from hour and one minute to an hour and a half.

We can't do anything with that while staying within the same technology stack and not rewriting the whole game from scratch. This is related to how scheduled tasks work. The server puts all scheduled tasks in a queue and processes them one by one as its performance permits. A delay up to a few minutes is possible when the stack is big. Pets do get 1 point of energy every 60 minutes, the expected time for the next point isn't affected by the processing lags. So 10 energy points will be restored in 10 hours plus the time of a lag for the last point if it happens. It's just the exact time of adding each energy point may be off by a few minutes. An exclusion here would be pet trade transfers. Usually they are almost instant, but in some rare cases they may take up to 1 hour.

The same goes for pets being born. The pets can be stuck with the done giving birth status for up to half an hour with no pet actually being born.

We didn't experience birth lags for half an hour for a long time. As far as I recall, it was about 2 years ago when we last experienced this problem. Could you please provide more data on this issue? We need the ID of a pet who was born with such a large delay, with the condition that it was born in 2020.

Please put more attention into this site.

This is what we have been doing for the last year. Perhaps you are significantly overestimating our resources.

A board game dating sim is not an interesting game, at all, for people looking to play actual games.

Each genre has its target audience. Even board game dating sims, though this one is not what BeastEon is about. Let each potential player decide for themselves if they want to play BeastEon or not. It's fine that you don't like the concept behind BeastEon - no one have to, though we will be pleased if some players will.

If you clearly envision your dream game, the best way to see it live one day would be to become an indie developer and make it yourself :) This is why indie devlopers and indie games exist at all. Success is great, but it's not a priority. 

Angel (#3) wrote:

Since when did an example of a game reusing its core mean needing to have a company backing you? This is an excuse, not a reason.

A company backing you is needed to have a big dedicated team working on these "little" tweaks as their day job. Such tweaks require a few orders of magnitude greater time and resources than two indie devs affected by war, economic crisis and health issues will ever have. You're basically asking us to perform on par with Nintendo which is one of the greatest and largest gaming companies in the history of video games. Isn't that a bit too much? :)

I used Pokemon as an example. You are going out of your way to take what I say the wrong way. An example is what is used to show a similarity. Go to your local school and ask a teacher to explain what "example" means if you do not understand me.

Pokemon Blue, Red and Yellow are the first games. They are the core system to the games. Pokemon Sword and Shield are the new games. They still use the system of the first games, just improved.

Final Fantasy Tactics is the first FF Tactics games. It is the core system. Final Fanatsy Tactics Advanced is an improvement upon that system.

Fire Emblem is the first Fire Emblem Game. Fire Emblem: Three Houses is the newest game, and uses the same core system with many improvements and differences.

Dungeons and Dragons first edition is the first Dungeons and Dragons tabletop game. Dungeons and Dragons 6e is the newest version, which uses the same core system with many, many improvements.

The examples are endless for how a core system can be improved upon without removing the core system. It does not take a company to make improvements to something. Any aspiring artist will tell you the same thing, as the artist themself is the core system, and the improvements they make are through learning, with they themselves remaining who they are.

Angel (#3) wrote:

I have to write this once more: we're against repeating the things that "every single last game in existence does". There's no reason to copy something already existing, especially in that many games.

There are tons of reasons, if you actually know anything about how life works. If something becomes cliche, it is because it is successful. If something gets used all the time, it is because it works. You're literally saying that you are against doing anything that is proven to work.

Would you make a horror game that has no ominous tone to it? No jump scares of any kind? If you don't use an ominous tone, or jump scares, or anything scary, then the horror game you make would be... Not a horror game.

Would you make a puzzle game that has no puzzles? Nope, don't think you would. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a puzzle game.

Those are only two examples of ideas being reused. Since you're against using ideas that have already been used, you are literally saying that you are against making the new site. After all, the new site is apparently a puzzle game with dating sim properties. Puzzle games need puzzles, and you're against using things that other games have already used.

By the way, you just stated that there will not be battles on the new site. Puzzles are not battles, they are puzzles. Ask any person with any knowledge at all about this. Teachers will tell you that puzzles are not fights. Battles are not puzzles. So even though you claim that there will be battles, you are saying that there will not be any battles at the exact same time.

Rock-Paper-Scissors is not tactics. It is not strategy. It is a guessing game. If you do not underand this, please find a local kindergarten and ask a teacher there to explain this to you.

I love strategy games. The Fire Emblem game series is fantastic for strategy, so you should take a look into those games if you want to understand even the first thing about what strategy is.

Numbers are what damage is. Being against damage is being against a game that has combat of any kind.

Why are you so dead set against a game being fun?

"Yes, we're against grinding and elapsed time being more important than game skill and planning."

This site has NO skill to it whatsoever. The only "planning" a person does is laying out which creatures to breed to get the genes they want.

If a game is fun, people will want to play it longer. You are against people playing for expended periods of time, thus you are against people having fun. If you do not understand this concept, please, find a local school of any kind and ask a teacher there to explain it to you.

I'm sorry to cut in like this but I can't help but feel that some of your conjectures are a bit on the extravagant, or downright false or unrelated side. Additonally, I also can't help but feel you're marginalizing the devs work, time, and effort they put into creating this game. It seems like you have a very limited understanding on how game dev works, or the whole process in designing and creating a game. Not only do you refuse to accept the idea of limited resources, you are being quite rude to a developer of the game in the process. 

(Also, I believe that you mean "Dungeons and Dragons, 5e". There is, as of yet, no Dungeons and Dragons 6e. If there is, I would like to know where I could get my hands on it.)

berry_stapp (#83220) wrote:

I'm sorry to cut in like this but I can't help but feel that some of your conjectures are a bit on the extravagant, or downright false or unrelated side. Additonally, I also can't help but feel you're marginalizing the devs work, time, and effort they put into creating this game. It seems like you have a very limited understanding on how game dev works, or the whole process in designing and creating a game. Not only do you refuse to accept the idea of limited resources, you are being quite rude to a developer of the game in the process. 

 

 

 

(Also, I believe that you mean "Dungeons and Dragons, 5e". There is, as of yet, no Dungeons and Dragons 6e. If there is, I would like to know where I could get my hands on it.)

I have been on many, many different game sites. I have seen simpler games, as well as more complex ones, imrpove their games given a few years time. After seven years, the only difference in this site is a couple of buildings, a cap on how many of an item you can have at a single time, and Etalia that are against every last principle that Angel is stating she has. Time and effort are looked down upon, yet it takes an extraoridinary amount of time and effort to create Etalia from the snowflakes. The limited resources are only going toward things that Angel clearly states she is against.

I am being blunt, not rude. There is a difference. It is not my fault that no one else on this site wants to say what needs to be said in fear of being seen as rude. An artist does not improve if everyone just smiles and compliments crappy work. Critisism needs to be given if there is ever going to be any improvement made.

Pardon me, I confused AL Season 8 with 6e. A lot of people at the shops I go to are saying that season 8 is the preparation for 6e and how 6e is going to be, so I end up mixing the two up every once in a while.

Also, Angel...

Angel (#3) wrote:

Another thing that could be improved is the timer system. Right now, the timer is very much not working how it should. Pets should be gaining a point of energy every hour, yet that's not how it works. Instead, they gain one point of energy anywhere from hour and one minute to an hour and a half.

We can't do anything with that while staying within the same technology stack and not rewriting the whole game from scratch. This is related to how scheduled tasks work. The server puts all scheduled tasks in a queue and processes them one by one as its performance permits. A delay up to a few minutes is possible when the stack is big. Pets do get 1 point of energy every 60 minutes, the expected time for the next point isn't affected by the processing lags. So 10 energy points will be restored in 10 hours plus the time of a lag for the last point if it happens. It's just the exact time of adding each energy point may be off by a few minutes. An exclusion here would be pet trade transfers. Usually they are almost instant, but in some rare cases they may take up to 1 hour.

I have proven every single day since returning to the site that this is incorrect. A pet does not gain 10 points of evergy every 10 hours. With the delay being up to 30 minutes for one point of energy, it is possible to take 15 hours to get 10 points of energy. The usual lag is only two or three minutes, thankfully, but there are times that it takes up to 30 minutes.

The expected time for the next energy point is very much affected by the lag. Play your own game and see for yourself.

Correcting this would not require rewritting the whole game from scratch. The Explore feature has a timer that works just fine. Since there is a timer on the site that works without issue, all it would take is replacing the failed timer with the timer that works.

how do you get the armor for pets i want that or if you catch them its on 

]

I am being blunt, not rude. There is a difference. It is not my fault that no one else on this site wants to say what needs to be said in fear of being seen as rude. An artist does not improve if everyone just smiles and compliments crappy work. Critisism needs to be given if there is ever going to be any improvement made.

 

It may be an outdated post, but, in my personal view, criticism is good when you know how to express it properly. You are not blunt. You are acting like ostentatious kid in search of attention and agreement. Every criticism should be constructive and may go without irony and malices. And the last thing. The artist may, or may not, take it into account. The ironic way you are speaking all the time when I browse the forum, and the manner "I know everything better" does NOT encourage a calm discussion. Everyone has the right to their own views, but expressing them like that, even if they are true, is, well, not very well looked upon. Change the manner, and maybe someone will care.